...So about two weeks ago I interviewed with a Judge for a clerkship and I never heard back. I assumed that meant I was S.O.L. - especially when he didn't respond to my follow-up email. But then today I got an email asking me to call him, so I did. He offered me a position, but not the clerkship. Instead, he said he had a spot for me in the public defender's office, or if I wanted it, he could get me an internship at Child Advocates, Inc., an organization that does the guardian ad litem stuff for that county. Basically, they are appointed to investigate cases of child abuse and neglect and report to the courts on behalf of the best interests of the children. It definitely *sounds* right up my alley, but the problem is that I would only be compensated $4,000 for the whole summer and it's in Indianapolis ~ which presents all sorts of fun housing and transportation issues (me being without a car and all...).
So my dilemma now is two-fold:
1. Do I take one of the two positions even though the compensation is so little? The money is a big issue, but at the same time this seems to be a very solid 1L summer job.
2. If I take the position do I go with the public defenders office or do I go with the child advocacy program? While child advocacy is much more up my alley, I still want to get a firm job next summer and I wonder if a public defender position might look more impressive on a resume.
These are my thoughts.... any advice? anyone? Especially law school kids who know what they're talking about as far as legal careers OR anyone who knows me personally and knows how much money I like to spend. ;)
Monday, February 12, 2007
Job Offer... HELP!
Posted by Little Bagel at 3:26 PM
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12 comments:
Ok, here goes (advice from a fellow law student):
1) You're lucky that you'll be getting *any* money. While $4K isn't a lot, it's not a pittance either. Welcome to the world of small loans - cheaper to pay off than a credit card.
2) You sound really excited about the CASA/GAL position. Go for it. The PD's office isn't more impressive to a firm, in my opinion. You'll still have to explain *why* you want to go from PI to private, but most 1L's don't work for firms this summer, so it's not a difficult explanation. Be prepared to state how your experience there will inform your experience at the firm, what skills you learned, etc.
3) Why a firm? You sound all excited about the job possibility... if it's just the money, I'd suggest sitting down and taking stock of your priorities. I'm not saying that working at a firm is inherently bad, just that you have to make sure that it's right for you. Make a list, figure it out.
4) Congrats! :)
P.S. Try the online apartment exchange through NALP (www.nalp.org, follow the link). There's an apt. available right now for $700 a month, furnished, from another law student.
I agree with Anonymous. Do what makes you happy, and don't worry about what "looks good." Both are great opportunities, and it is rare for a 1L to get paid for that first summer. Experience is experience. I didn't even have a job my first summer (although I went to London). I'd also like to know why you want to work at a firm. From what I've read on here, it doesn't seem like your kind of thing.
If you can't find an apartment, I've heard that it can actually be cheaper to rent a hotel room on a weekly basis. This changes from city to city though.
Good luck with your choice!
I don't think 4K is that bad. 3 months? That's enough to cover the basics, especially if you live cheaply...
Big Colle
I agree with Anonymous. Do what makes you happy, and don't worry about what "looks good."
Totally disagree. Do what looks best on your resume; after all, it's only a summer, and if you want to get a good firm job, you want to engineer your resume towards that goal.
Having said that, both options are probably very solid, so you can choose either one. Firms really have relatively little interest in what your 1L summer job was, so long as it's law-related (hence why you shouldn't just do what makes you happy). It *sounds* like the PD option might provide you with more writing samples and better direct legal experience, but I'm not sure based on your description. Either one is work in the legal field, though, which is what is important.
Again, firms care very little what you do. But to the extent they do, they want to see actual legal experience (things like research and memo-writing, etc.). So ask about what both positions provide and do whichever one gets you that.
I'd also like to know why you want to work at a firm. From what I've read on here, it doesn't seem like your kind of thing.
Why a firm? You sound all excited about the job possibility... if it's just the money, I'd suggest sitting down and taking stock of your priorities.
This is naive. I don't know the OP's situation, but if she's like 90% of the rest of us, she's got loans to pay off.
Your goal should be to get the best firm job out of school that you can, so that you can make a lot of money. Pay off your loans and build a secure financial base in the fastest time frame possible. Then leave firm life if you don't like it and do what makes you happy.
View people that advise you to "do what makes you happy" askance. It's not a realistic option for most right out of law school, and those that follow that advice to low-paying jobs end up saddled with debt for decades.
Get into the firm, get the money, and then get out if you want. You'll be better off in the long run.
"Firms really have relatively little interest in what your 1L summer job was, so long as it's law-related (hence why you shouldn't just do what makes you happy)."
If firms don't care what your 1L summer job was, as long as it's law-related, and both of her prospective jobs are law-related, then why shouldn't she choose which one makes her happier?
And yes, I do have loans, but I'd much rather have a moderately paying job that made me happy and pay off my loans over a longer period of time than be miserable for 3-5 years and be debt-free. I'm not saying that all people who work at firms are miserable, I just know that's not what I want out of life. There's so much more out there than just money.
I'm not against working at firms. I just don't think they have to be the automatic choice like everyone seems to think.
Sorry to turn your comment section into a debate, and good luck with your decision! Let us know what happens!
If firms don't care what your 1L summer job was, as long as it's law-related, and both of her prospective jobs are law-related, then why shouldn't she choose which one makes her happier?
I never said she shouldn't, so maybe your question's just rhetorical. I said she shouldn't just do what makes her happy. I was denying your's and anonymous's premise that one should do what makes one happy as a top priority.
The top priority of one's 1L summer is resume engineering and gaining legal experience. If all things are totally equal, then she should do whichever one she prefers, obviously. But we don't know whether they are equal. One might provide more legal experience than the other, depending on the circumstances. A further inquiry is required.
You seem to believe that, since firms don't care much about the 1L summer, we should reject any marginal utility in one job over another, which is just an erroneous conflation of separate considerations. It's certainly not what I said in my first post. Even though firms care very little, they want to see legal experience and legal work product. Therefore, whichever job provides more legal experience is the one she should take, since one's "happiness" as regards twelves weeks in a single summer is largely irrelevant. Again, the utility might be marginal, but the battles of one's 2L job search is won and lost at the margins. Every little bit helps.
And yes, I do have loans, but I'd much rather have a moderately paying job that made me happy and pay off my loans over a longer period of time than be miserable for 3-5 years and be debt-free.
Well, I'm not that concerned about whether you have loans or not, as I was referencing the OP. But speaking generally, the notion that there are a bounty of "moderately" paying jobs out there that avoid the misery of firm (or firm-like) hours and atmosphere while allowing you to pay off loans and avoid poverty is largely a fiction. Worse, it's a con perpetuated by law schools. Public interest and other non-firm jobs are simply not viable options for debt repayment out of law school. Further, to ignore the financial reality of existence simply because other things make one happy is hopelessly idealistic.
Also, to the extent we're talking about the merits of immediate "happiness" by taking a low-paying job versus the merits of firm misery in order to pay off loans quickly and pursue delayed "happiness," the latter is obviously the better option. A few years of firm experience is invaluable, and will look much more attractive to public interest and similar employers than just entering a particular area of that job spectrum right out of law school.
There's so much more out there than just money.
And yet we choose to take on mountains of debt by attending better schools than going to lower-tiered institutions on full rides. People can't have it both ways.
I agree that paying off the loans early is a good idea. Being a martyr to the cause only goes so far, when you can't support your kids because you've got a morgage payment going to the federal goverment student loan program. Plus, the firm experience is probably good no matter which way you end up ultimately. And misery is a choice (whether we like to think so or not).
Love,
Big Colle
GO with the child advocacy job. Meg, remember how we talked about we should of been social workers?? but now we are trying to get jobs that actually pay some money...I truly believe you should do what makes you most excited. When you are more excited about your previous jobs it makes you seem more marketable all around. Also I agree with Big Colle, you could do 4K and if I live in Chicago I could come and visit you and we could be poor together(hell, isn't that what life is about right now being young and poor??) either way I think you are amazing, but you know that...
Love,
Lissa
By the way you have got a real argument going on here...:)
All I have to say is - I'm glad I'm not in law school! Too much debating for my blood pressure.
But it's the right place for you!
Chelle
Hi, I spent last summer at a PD's office. I wasn't a 1L, but the did hang out with some of them. I think it was a great opportunity. I don't know about Indianapolis but we went on field trips to the jail, juvie, prison, an an autopsy.
The 1L's did alot of research and some interesting miscellaneous stuff. If you do anything law related as a 1L I think it will look good to a law firm. Also if you get paid at all after the first year you are doing pretty good.
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